Just a 46-year-old mom of 2 in Northern California. My kids are Monkey Monkey(MM) and Drama Llama (DL). I am married to Monkey Hubby (MH). Off-Topic blog post for the day...
The topic of love seems to come up enough on the blogs, and definitely is a hot topic among my MANY single friends.
I personally take issue to the sentiments that dh and I are just *lucky.* I could easily start listing a pile of hardships we have faced. The thing about us is we don't dwell on the bad. I think this often gives people the mistaken impression that "everything is easy" for us. I take issue when anything we have worked hard for is chalked up to luck.
BUT, by the same token, there is no doubt there is plenty of LUCK in our lives. One issue where I realize this 1000% in my life, is in our relationship. How lucky we were able to find such a compatible mate, so young. I don't mind the luck comments in that area. I fully agree.
What's the secret, then? Honestly, I have no idea. I truly think it is somewhat genetic. For me and my spouse it was literally "Love at first sight." For that, I certainly believe in the concept.
There was an instant physical attraction between us, that I am not sure we ever experienced before. We quickly found we were extremely compatible emotionally, mentally, etc. We dated only a few weeks before we started talking marriage.
The other thing is we met rather young (18/19). Neither of us was looking for a marriage mate, in the least. MAkes the whole thing more bizarre. But I truly believe that if you "look too hard" you kind of miss what is right in front of you. Though neither of us was particularly looking for a relationship at the time, that is precisely what we ended up with. We kind of felt that a relationship like that doesn't come along very often. So we better cherish it.
So, why do I think it's genetic? My parents met exactly the same way, and married around age 20. My grandparents met the same way too, and married about the same age. My family is filled with fiercely independent people who married quite young. Dh and I waited until after college to officially move in together and marry, but we were "married" for all intensive purposes, since age 18, as were those before us.
I can't help but wonder if there is a genetic propensity to sniff out mates well, or to simply "go with the flow." How many of our friends gave up good relationships because they were "too young to be tied down"? I am not quite sure what it is.
Naturally, many of my friends think I have some wonderful secret, and they bug me more about it with age. I tell them, frankly, the fish pond is getting small. At age 18 you have the whole pond to fish, but by their age (30s) most of the good ones have been taken. I don't think it leaves a lot to pick from. I think at that age you have to lower your standards a bit. & not that standards have to be low. But to all my single friends who would never marry a divorcee, nor anyone with kids, I think they are just shooting themselves in the foot. Let's face it, you can have that luxury when you are 20. Not when you are pushing 35. Probably the best fish in the pool have matured and learned a bit through marriage and children.
& if you are shopping for a mate with a "wish list" of traits - good luck. That's why I wonder if it's the "go with the flow" part of our personalities that fare better in love.
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I've also made some insights in our own relationship lately.
It really pisses me off (if you hadn't noticed) when it is stated that women like "strong men who make money." There's just something about that whole concept that rubs me the wrong way.
With time, I agree more with the underlying sentiment. I think it is the "women like x" that is very narrow. As the discussion evolved, I finally realized where dh and I fit in, with our caveman ancestors. I've taken a lot of offense over the years since I am the primary breadwinner in our relationship. & I don't see what the big deal is.
Let's put it this way. When I met dh I was dating a guy and our relationship was going nowhere fast. The guy had no ambition and it just wasn't working out. I recently ran into said guy on Facebook/MySpace. I hadn't talked to him or seen him in like 15 years. & he pretty much hadn't done a thing with his life. He was STILL going to college. He was STILL living at home with his parents.
I sensed all this when we dated - he was quite a few years older than me. Just kind of partied all day. HE was a really nice guy, there was a lot of physical attraction, and if he was a little more ambitious, I might have married him. I don't know. But the "no ambition" thing killed the relationship. He was fun to hang out with until someone better came along (my spouse)!
I met my spouse at work. I was definitely attracted to his humor and his personality more than anything. BUT, he was also promoted rapidly at work and had a lot of responsibility. I admit it - that was VERY attractive.
That is the person I was attracted to and whom I married.
Women all the time say, "I would never date/marry/love a man who didn't work." For me, obviously I am a little more open minded. But let's face it, the fact that my spouse does not "work" today is of little consequence. He is a motivated, hard working man. I know if I was disabled tomorrow, that he could step up and pay the bills. On the flip side, I couldn't see myself marrying someone who couldn't even finish college in a few years.
All in all, I admit to the sentiment. I just think it is often taken too literally. It's a shame when someone like my spouse is assumed to be "weak" for not having a job. Really, he should be looked upon as strong as having worked hard enough and saved enough to take many years off of work. That's the man I married! 
I don't mind being the breadwinner because I know he is perfectly capable of doing the same. For that, I give in a bit.
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My parents did raise me to be fiercely independent. No doubt about it. I often think it's a shame I don't have any daughters. I would teach my daughters the same. For that, I don't "need a man." But what I need even less is a man that I have to take care of, or who is going to bring me down. They didn't raise me to "take care of other people" either. It's why my only real choice was an independent mate. Just because I am independent doesn't mean I am masculine and my spouse is feminine. IT's funny because I was never a tomboy. But my personality as an adult does intimidate men, no doubt.
I often think my spouse is an extraordinarily masculine type, to be able to handle my independence. To be able to admit that I am better at earning money and he is better with rearing children. (When we first dated I focused on college and my career, and he always talked about wanting children as soon as possible). It's not traditional, but who really cares about what everyone else thinks. In my eyes, I married an extraordinarily strong man!
Thoughts On Love
August 23rd, 2009 at 02:51 pm
August 23rd, 2009 at 03:39 pm 1251041970
August 23rd, 2009 at 05:14 pm 1251047653
August 24th, 2009 at 12:00 am 1251072025
Just two things occur to me:
1. The women being attracted to strong men thing. I agree it exists. For most women. Not all women. There is probably an evolutionary basis for a women fancy a good protector/provider.... it's like a lot of women fancy the pants off George Clooney... but then I'm sure there are some women who don't... Generalisations are so dangerous/limiting.... but I guess we're talking about majorities and minorities...
2. Re - your single friends having to "settle" for a lesser man (in their eyes) because of they are now mid-thirties... No... don't agree with this... What sort of longevity will that relationship have if the women feels like she has only won 2nd/3rd prize ??? And why be so cruel to the poor man in that relationship - to sentence him to a life of sensing his OH thinks he is inadequate ??? No... No... If I suspected my gf had "settled" for me, I would kick her and her belongings out before her feet touched the ground...
I realise women have the biological clock issue - which as a man I can only partially understand I guess... but, if I marry, I will remain an independent person but I will choose to bring the same air as that person just because they somehow make it sweeter... My heart will be in my throat and I will look at her with the wonder of a child... whether I be 35,40, 55, 60....
The thing is we all are driven by primeval animal instincts... But, on top of those, we have emotion, experience, intelligent thought, hope etc... So, thankfully, people's tastes and preferences will differ..
I don't know what I'm saying apart from I reckon it is hard to be objective about something as subjective as love
August 24th, 2009 at 01:16 am 1251076592
IMO, life is like a trip. If you perceive that your life is interesting and act upon it, you're going to get a traveling companion.
August 24th, 2009 at 02:54 am 1251082456
August 24th, 2009 at 02:59 am 1251082791
August 24th, 2009 at 03:23 am 1251084203
True - now I am even more confused - I hadn't thought of it in terms of the rebel discussion.
APH - well, let's put it this way. If many of the older single women I know don't change their way of thinking, they will never find a mate. I guess that's their problem really. Not that they should "Settle." Just that they really need a knock in the head about reality! I hesitated to use the word "settle" because I wouldn't settle for anything with a mate. But I guess the thing is I always had more realistic expectations.
I wouldn't want to be dating today, for sure. The playing field is VERY different, and I have been out of the game quite a long time!
August 24th, 2009 at 02:17 pm 1251123432
MM, I completely agree that I think the um mating dance is much more complicated than Y only likes X and X only goes for Z. Both women AND men should take exception to be pigeon-holed into convenient labels and formulas. Right or wrong, I don't believe in that either. I think everybody is a little bit different, even if we all end up sharing many similarities.
That said, and boy I hope you don't get mad and come at me with a spanking stick but I hope you will realize that you are indeed a very different woman than many others that I've known, online and off. Shall we say, very special and rare? Not every woman thinks like you. Perhaps more should. But not every do nonetheless. Sometimes, it's good enough for some women to simply be attracted to someone who does seem to have a strong personality and makes money. I don't agree with that line of thinking either by the way, but I too am coming to grips with that... because sometimes, it is what it is.
In the end, what I find most disturbing is that a lot of guys online will try to try to simplify women from human beings into axioms or quasi-truisms that they can exploit. For example, "Women like money. Therefore, I will dangle money in their face to attract them." or "Women like men that are hard to catch. Therefore, I will not contact them at all by the third date, and if they put out by the fifth or sixth date, I'm going to dump them." That sort of thing.
And I'm sorry MM. I do believe in being nice. Of course, my ex would tell you I'm anything but, but I believe in it. Even if it means I'm hosed for the rest of my life with women. Somewhere, sooner or later, every man has to draw a line between what they believe and what they're willing to bend. If believing in being nice to people is wrong, then I don't want to be right. I don't think that translates to being weak, but we are all free to decide for ourselves what that means exactly right?
Finally, but most importantly, I hope that none of our discussions about it so far has meant to imply that you simply had it easy. I don't think I've implied that myself, and I think it may have been from elsewhere and that I simply hit on that nerve. I don't believe in luck either, if nothing else, because it's not something I can control. So, I can only focus on what I CAN do, which is to try my best every time with everything that matters.
Listen, I like you. I like many on here in SA, and you're definitely no exception. You've helped me greatly over the years, and I hope there are no hard feelings. I just wanted you to know that since it's not always obvious, and that I hope we keep having fun, even if we disagree.
August 24th, 2009 at 02:21 pm 1251123693
August 24th, 2009 at 08:26 pm 1251145603
No hard feelings. I am opinionated (obviously) but I appreciate differing viewpoints. I am not one to take other opinions very personally.
All in all, I don't find myself that unique. Different than you've known? Perhaps.
I mean, I'll take the compliments.
August 24th, 2009 at 08:38 pm 1251146332
I appreciate you think I am unique, but how far would I get in the dating world today? Not sure. I'm glad to be out of the game, that is for sure!
August 25th, 2009 at 01:04 pm 1251205446
In fact, one friend of mine specifically prefers women with a dominant personality. It's the only type he's interested in.
The unvarnished truth about the stereotype about men who prefer "subservient" women isn't so much that that's what all men like. Rather, men sometimes think that if a woman is more... dependent on him, that kind of women are easier to work with and less likely to run out or cheat on him. So, it's more of a control issue, based on the guy's own personal insecurities.
I know another guy whose specific angle is just that: To find emotionally insecure women, to find out what they are insecure about, to specifically "sell" how he is able to fill that gap. He only goes for insecure women he can exploit. I disagree with him, and we are not friends.
Personally, I don't have a problem with a woman who makes more than I do, or insists on going dutch. I even had female friends all the way back in high school and college who were like that and we got along just fine. Now, personality-wise, I'm a bit of a hard-head, so I find that I'm not compatible with others (male or female) who can be as hard-headed as me, BUT that's only my own personal preference. I've got guy friends who love that kind of women.
Well, either way, you're happily married, so all this is just fun, theoretical chit-chat. But I think your chances are much better than you give yourself credit for. You're smart, interesting, successful, and seems to be very well-adjusted. Frankly, those are attractive qualities. Insecure or exploitative men may not find you interesting, but they are not worth your time anyways. The rest? I think they'll find you as interesting as I do.